视频介绍
今年年初，日本大胃王菅原初代，被证实于3月9日因癌离世，享年59岁。
早在2006年，网络大胃王还未流行之前，菅原初代的大胃王之名便已经响彻日本，拥有众多粉丝。
在她最惊人的记录中，她曾经在10分钟之内，吃完了399碗荞麦面，让所有人震撼不已。
每个人都知道，大胃王比赛，实际上也是抓住了人们的猎奇心态，消耗选手的健康，来获得流量与利益。
但对菅原初代来说，这是不得不抓住的稻草。
在儿子3岁的时候，她带着儿子去医院，医生怀疑她的儿子患有注意缺陷多动障碍综合征（ADHD）。
丈夫拒绝接受儿子可能患病的事实，也不愿意让菅原初代带着儿子去看病，更不愿意为此出钱。
机缘巧合下，她参加了大胃王比赛，并发现，只要能够赢得比赛，获得奖金，她就能够绕过丈夫，获得带孩子看病的钱。
从身体健康角度来说，毫无疑问，这样做是加速消耗自己的健康，让自己离死亡越来越近。
但她只能靠着一次次大胃王比赛的胜利，才能从泥潭一般的生活中抽身出来。
2007年，她在15分钟内吃完了350碗荞麦面，比第二名足足多吃了100碗，正式成为大胃女王。
此后她用超出人类极限的进食速度，一次次挑战极限，给观众带来越来越大的冲击，终于赚到了足够给孩子治疗的钱。
2010年，菅原初代也宣布荣誉退休，退出大胃王界。
但2016年，一方面迫于生活压力，另一方面日本大胃王已经连续几年输给美国，大胃王节目组又重新找到她，请她出山，于是53岁的魔女初代复出，重回大胃王界。
直到去年6月，她在推特上宣布，自己罹患大肠癌......
其实一开始大胃王比赛大多为了满足人们的猎奇心理，后来涌现出一大批大胃王人设的博主也是如此，趁着吃播崛起，便开始打着“大胃王”的旗号，用惊人的食量博眼球 。
因为很多人觉得，看这样的暴食视频，能减肥、能助眠，更重要的是，还能解压。
而减压的方式明明有很多种，为什么非要选这种“简单粗暴且浪费”的方式呢？
治疗师埃斯特·佩雷尔（Esther Perel）就在TED的平台上，讨论了在家庭和工作中创建例行程序，仪式和界限以应对与大流行相关的损失和不确定性的重要性，并提供了一些实用的工具和技术来帮助你摆脱压力、重拾自我。
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Helen Walters: Hi Esther Perel, thank you so much for joining us and I want to get right to it. So we're more than a year into this pandemic now. And I think one constant, whether we're really acknowledging it or not, has been heightened stress levels, shall we say.
海伦·沃尔特斯：嗨，埃丝特·佩雷尔，非常感谢你加入我们，我想马上开始。所以我们现在已经有一年多的时间了。我认为有一个常数，不管我们是否真的承认它，我们应该说，就是压力水平升高了。
So I'm sure you've seen this in your practice and in your work. And I'm curious, what are you recommending to people who are coming to you wanting to know how to regulate stress effectively?
所以我相信你在实践和工作中都看到了这一点。我很好奇，你向那些想知道如何有效调节压力的人推荐什么方法？
Esther Perel: So, hello, Helen, here it is. You know, we're living in a time of existential anguish, of isolation, of universal grief, economic insecurity, prolonged uncertainty. And we have a tendency to call all this feelings stress. But stress is multidimensional.
埃丝特·佩雷尔：你好，海伦，我这就一一说明。你知道，我们生活在一个生存的痛苦，孤立，普遍不开心，经济不安全，长期不确定的时代。我们倾向于把这种感觉称为压力。但压力是多方面的。
Researchers Susan David and Elissa Epel emphasize the importance of having to break it down into parts so that they become manageable. We have despair. We have anxiety, exhaustion, sadness, anger, irritability. All these feelings are part of stress. And when they are named and framed, we can better regulate them and deal with them.
研究人员Susan David和Elissa Epel强调必须将其分解成若干部分，以便它们变得易于调节。我们绝望了。我们有焦虑，疲惫，悲伤，愤怒，易怒。所有这些感觉都是压力的一部分。而当他们被点名陷害时，我们可以更好地对他们进行监管和处理。
Prolonged uncertainty at this moment is that notion that we are uncertain, but we also don't know how long this will last. This is not your typical disaster where you have a warning and a planning and an onslaught and a post. We are in it and we don't know for how long.
目前长期的不确定性是这样一种观念，即我们是不确定的，但我们也不知道这将持续多久。这不是你的典型灾难，你会有预警，有计划，有一次冲击和一个帖子。我们置身其中，我们不知道有多久了。
We experience a sense of ambiguous loss where things are gone but still there, and it really prevents a sense of mourning. Buildings are standing. They are physically present, the office buildings, but they are emotionally hollow. Family members are in nursing homes or in other countries. They are emotionally, psychologically very, very close to us, but they are physically absent.
我们经历了一种模糊不清的失落感，在那里，即使事情已经过去，但影响仍然存在，它确实阻止了一种悲哀的感觉。建筑物屹立。它们实际存在于办公楼中，但在情感上却是空心的。家庭成员在养老院或其他国家。他们在情感上，心理上非常非常接近我们，但始终无法陪伴在身边。
And that sense of ambiguous loss is most exemplified in what we are experiencing at this moment as the loss of Eros. And the pandemic gripped the world. And then the pendulum that swings between freedom and security has snapped off its hinge. There is a constant, extreme emphasis on safety and it cordons off.
这种模棱两可的失落感，在我们目前正在经历的爱的流失中得到了最充分的体现。大流行席卷了整个世界。然后，在自由与安全之间摇摆的钟摆突然脱离了铰链。人们一直非常重视安全性，因此逐渐戒绝了安全性。
We avoid the spaces where we can experience happenstance, chance encounters, mystery, surprise, all those elements of Eros that create a sense of aliveness and vibrancy in our lives. That is the place where creativity and curiosity also meet.
我们避开了某些可以体验偶然性、突发状况、神秘、惊喜以及爱的事情，但恰恰是那些事情会在我们的生活中创造出一种充满活力和活力的感觉。那也是创造力和好奇心相遇的地方。
So what are some of the things that people can do once we understand stress in this way is to create routines and rituals and boundaries.
因此，一旦人们以这种方式理解压力，人们可以做的一些事情就是建立例行程序，礼节和界限。
Routines to separate the different activities, the different roles and responsibilities that we inhabit, rituals because they create sacred time and sacred space and boundaries, because they create delineation, demarcation, borders, and those are really necessary for us to experience a sense of groundedness and structure.
你需要区分不同的活动，我们在生活中的不同角色和职责，仪式，因为它们创造了神圣的时间，神圣的空间和边界，因为它们创造了界限，标界，边界，而这些对于我们体验归属感和结构感确实是必不可少的 。
And the second thing that really helps with stress as well is actually to create space for Eros. There's a reason people at this moment are seeing plants grow, seeing bread rise, creating things, making things out of nothing. Because when you see life emerge in front of you or something change in front of you, it functions as an antidote to deadness and to stress.
第二点真正有助于缓解压力的方法实际上是为爱创造空间。人们在这一刻看到植物生长，看到面包发酵，创造事物，一切的起起落落都是有原因的。因为当你看到生命出现在面前或面前发生某种变化时，它就起到了消除死亡和压力的解毒剂的作用。
HW: It's true. I can't tell you how many of my friends have adopted puppies in this time. Everyone's a dog owner.
王伟：是真的。我不能告诉你这段时间我有多少朋友收养了小狗。每个人都是狗主人。
EP: You know, we usually thrive on this casual sharing of personal stories with coworkers or going to a place for lunch that we hadn't gone to and wanted to explore or talking to a kind stranger on the commute. All of these enlivening moments of our lives, surprise moments of our lives, are currently not there. So the puppy, it really gives us all of that, you know, a pet amongst us.
EP：你知道，我们通常喜欢和同事随意分享个人故事，或者去一个我们没去过的地方吃午饭，想去探索一下，或者在上下班路上和一个好心的陌生人聊天。我们生活中所有这些充满活力的时刻，我们生活中令人惊奇的时刻，现在都不存在了。所以小狗，它真的给了我们所有的，你知道，我们身边的宠物。
So not just any pet, you know, an animal, a child. Those are natural sources of surprise and mystery and spontaneity. They bring the Eros right in front of us.
所以不仅仅是宠物，你知道，动物，孩子。这些都是惊喜、神秘和自发性的自然来源。他们把爱带到我们面前。
HW: I love that because I think it's such a good analysis of where we are and what we've all been experiencing. I think the flip side of this almost is there's basically no such thing as control. Right?
霍华德：我喜欢这样，因为我认为这是一个很好的分析，我们在哪里，我们都经历了什么。我认为这件事的另一面是基本上没有控制权。这么说对吗？
And so I'm curious, you know, for those of us who used to have a life that we understood in some ways -- so we had the office, we had the home, we had these places where we could go and we kind of understood how the world was structured -- with the collapse of those roles and the collapse of those boundaries, how do you regain a sense of yourself in this new world and what are your tips for kind of establishing the boundaries, like these new boundaries?
所以我很好奇，你知道，对于我们这些曾经有过某种我们理解的生活的人来说——我们有办公室，有家，有我们可以去的地方，我们有点理解世界是如何构建的——随着这些角色的瓦解和界限的瓦解，在这个新的世界里，你如何重新找回自我的感觉？你有什么建议来建立新的界限，比如这些新的界限？
EP: We are not working from home, we are working with home and we are sometimes sitting on one chair. I was doing a session for "How's Work?" with a newsroom, and one of the people was talking about how she has a new baby. She sits at home, she's nursing. She's the mother. She's the colleague. She's the manager. She's the reporter. She's the spouse.
EP：我们不是在家里工作，我们是把工作和生活混在一起了，有时我们坐在一张椅子上。我和一个新闻编辑室在开一个“如何运作”的远程会议，其中一个人在谈论她是怎么生了一个新孩子的。她坐在家里，她还在休养中。当时她有多重身份，她是母亲。她是同事。她是经理。她是记者。她是我的妻子。
She's the daughter of. She's the friend. She has all those roles coming together, merged in one place, ever without having to leave her dining room table. And the mute button is basically her only boundary left between one world and the other. So what has she lost? She lost the sense of community, of collective support that she gets at work, the ability to commiserate.
她是我的女儿。她是我的朋友。她把所有的角色集合在一起，融合在一个地方，从来不用离开她的餐桌。静音按钮基本上是她在两个世界之间的唯一边界。她失去了什么？她失去了社区意识，失去了工作中得到的集体支持，失去了同情的能力。
She lost being a woman who is a mother who goes to work and is a working mother because now she's actually working and mothering at the same time, the whole day in the same place. That's a very different experience.
她失去了作为一个母亲去工作，是一个工作的母亲，因为现在她实际上是工作和母亲在同一时间，一整天在同一个地方。那是完全不同的经历。
And for her and every working parent at this moment, it is essential to communicate boundaries with partners. We were talking yesterday -- and with colleagues as well.
对她和每一位工作的父母来说，与伴侣沟通是非常必要的。我们昨天谈过了——也和同事谈过了。
We were talking yesterday. Your child came into the room and basically you notified, I am home, I am alone, my son is here and he may show up. And indeed he did. And there is something very different when we don't try to hide our multiple realities, but we actually integrate them in the midst of the situations that we are in.
我们昨天在谈。你的孩子走进房间，基本上你通知我，我在家，我一个人，我儿子在这里，他可能会出现。他确实做到了。当我们不试图隐藏我们的多重现实时，有一个非常不同的东西，但我们实际上把它们整合在我们所处的环境中。
Carving out a special sacred space, physical space to delineate the separations, I think at this point is extremely important. That involves, you know, even changing clothes. We are usually very localized people and we change, we move to another place. We have a ritual of preparing the things that we need to put in our bag, to go to the gym, to go to the restaurant, to go to see friends or family.
你需要开辟出一个特殊的神圣空间，物理空间来划定分隔，我认为此时此刻是极其重要的。你知道，这包括换衣服。我们通常是非常本地化的人，我们需要改变，我们可以搬到另一个地方。我们需要一种仪式感，准备我们需要放在包里的东西，去健身房，去餐馆，去看朋友或家人。
None of these markers are currently there to give us that embodied sense of experience. We are exhausted, basically. We use the word a lot, but we don't always attribute exactly where that exhaustion is coming from and it comes from the loss of these delineations and demarcations, these boundaries that are very, very grounding to us.
这些标记目前都没有一个能给我们体现经验的感觉。基本上我们都筋疲力尽了。我们经常使用这个词，但我们并不总是准确地描述这种疲惫来自哪里，它来自于这些划定和划分的丧失，这些边界对我们来说是非常、非常有根据的。
HW: I don't know if you saw that video of the dad who was on telly with the BBC and his kid came in and then another kid came in. He kind of strong-armed the kid out of the way. And I think what's beautiful about this is that we have, you know, I think that we are all learning how to roll with this.
我不知道你是否看到了那个跟BBC一起上电视的爸爸和他的孩子进来，然后又有一个孩子进来的录像。他有点强悍地把孩子挡在一边。我认为这件事最美的是，我们都在学习如何运用这个方法。
And, you know, now my son will come and join a meeting and everyone's just like waves and is like, "Hi Jack," and, you know, and then he gets bored and wanders off again. And that's kind of, you know, in a way, I think that's a really beautiful outcome. I mean, it's a very lucky outcome because I'm very lucky to be able to work at home and have that kind of fortunate aspect of my life. But I just think it's a beautiful outcome.
现在我儿子将来也会参加会议，大家都像海浪一样，就像“嗨杰克”，然后他又无聊又想走开。你知道，在某种程度上，我认为这是一个非常美好的结果。我是说，这是一个非常幸运的结果，因为我很幸运能够在家工作并拥有我生活中这种幸运的方面。但我只是觉得这是一个很好的结果。
EP: But you know, what's also very striking is that you're not trying to hide it and to whisk him away. In a way I think, you know, we are integrating your home life, your reality as a mother alone at home with your child who is also working as part of our conversation.
但是，你知道的是，你也没有试图隐藏它并把他赶走，这是非常令人惊讶的。从某种意义上说，我认为，我们正在将你的家庭生活，你作为母亲独自在家中与您的孩子一起生活的现实相结合。
And I think that this for me reflects a very interesting change in this moment, which is a kind of an anti-small talk. You know, people are literally speaking about the things that they usually try to keep outside of the office door. We usually bring our whole self to work. Right now, we are bringing our whole work to our personal world and that merging is creating a very different set of conversations as well.
我认为这对我来说反映了当下一个非常有趣的变化，这是一种反闲聊。你知道，人们实际上是在谈论那些他们通常试图藏在办公室门外的东西。我们通常都是全身心地投入工作。现在，我们把所有的工作都带到了我们的个人世界，这种融合也创造了一套非常不同的对话。
And those conversations are part of the collective resilience that helps us deal with the loss of control, the prolonged uncertainty and all the other stressors that we mentioned.
这些谈话是集体韧性的一部分，它帮助我们应对失控、长期不确定以及我们提到的所有其他压力。
HW: So how does this affect our ability to feel productive? I'm curious about that feeling of, like -- at the end of the day I just did a really -- I nailed that project, so I did that really well. And I feel really good about that. I'm going to close the door and I'm going to leave and I'm going to go home again.
HW：那么这是如何影响我们的生产能力的呢？我对那种感觉很好奇，比如——最后我做了一个非常——我完成了那个项目，所以我做得非常好。我感觉很好。我要关上门，我要离开，我要再回家。
EP: I'm going to frame this a little differently. Zygmunt Bauman, the sociologist, basically made this very, very apt observation. In abnormal circumstances, when people have abnormal responses, that is actually normal.
EP：我要把这个框架改一下。社会学家Zygmunt Bauman基本上做出了非常非常贴切的观察。在不正常的情况下，当人们有不正常的反应，这实际上是正常的。
So this notion of wanting to continue to be how we used to be is one of the things that we need to release. We -- this is a time where we try to face our uncertainty by being even more productive.
所以，想要继续保持我们过去的样子是我们需要释放的东西之一。我们——这是一个我们试图通过更具生产力来面对不确定性的时代。
And so we end up working seven days instead of understanding that what really will help us get through this is a sense of mass mutual reliance, a deep sense of interdependence that we are in a shared experience and that collectively we need to go through this.
因此，我们结束了七天的工作，而不是理解真正能帮助我们度过难关的是一种大众相互依赖的感觉，一种深深的相互依赖的感觉，我们有着共同的经历，我们需要共同经历这一切。
That in itself will help us remain productive, but not the amount of hours that we are putting in or the notion that we have an outcome that is as good as it would have been if none of this was happening because it is happening. We can't pretend that none of this is happening.
这本身将有助于我们保持动力，但这并不是我们投入的时间数量，也不是我们认为如果这些都没有发生，我们会有一个好的结果，因为它正在发生。我们不能假装这一切都没有发生。
And I think that when we are able to acknowledge our reality and then respond accordingly, it actually A -- makes us more productive, B -- makes us less stressful and C -- maintains our sense of connection, which ultimately is our greatest source of resilience for dealing with this kind of situation.
我认为，当我们能够承认自己的现实并做出相应的反应时，它实际上会使我们更富有成效，使我们压力更小，保持我们的联系感，这最终是我们应对这种情况的最大弹性来源。
HW: What are you hearing from managers about how they're dealing with this in terms of their people and their organizations and how are you helping them?
HW：你从管理者那里听到了什么，关于他们是如何处理员工和组织的问题的，你是如何帮助他们的？
EP: So what I hear from managers are the same stresses that we've just mentioned, is a new emphasis on not just on relationships and the importance of relational intelligence in the workplace, but of mental health and wellness, of an integration of an entire emotional vocabulary that involves empathy and trust and psychological safety, at the same time as we are discussing performance indicators.
EP：所以我从管理者那里听到的和我们刚才提到的一样，是一种新的强调，不仅强调人际关系和工作场所关系智力的重要性，而且强调身心健康，强调整合所有的情感词汇，包括同理心、信任和心理安全，在我们讨论绩效指标的同时。
What I bring to the conversation is really how do you create these anti-small talk exchanges, conversations with a team, and every team has a different culture for that. But it is about helping people, inviting people to talk about how the big events that are happening at this point in the world are also manifesting in their personal lives.
我给大家带来的是，你是如何创造这些反闲聊的交流，与一个团队的对话，每个团队都有不同的文化。但它是关于帮助人们，邀请人们谈论世界上此时此刻正在发生的重大事件是如何在他们的个人生活中产生影响的。
And I give them the example of my own startup, of EPGM, where we on Friday have literally shrunken the length of the meeting and have taken a much longer time to check in with each other, about self-care, about the divisions that take place in our own families, about what have been the resources that have been most useful.
我给他们举了我自己创业的例子，比如EPGM，我们在星期五的时候确实缩短了会议的时间，花了很长的时间互相了解，关于自我照顾，关于我们家庭中发生的分歧，关于什么是最有用的资源。
But it has become really a resource pool that has deepened the connections and that has also fostered the resilience and has had very clear effects on the productivity. So I shared that with the companies that I work with and talk about stress and boundaries and communications so that it helps people understand what they are going through, but particularly that this is a shared collective experience they're going through and not just something that is happening to them alone.
但它实际上已经成为一个资源池，加深了联系，也培养了弹性，对生产力产生了非常明显的影响。因此，我与我工作的公司分享了这一点，并讨论了压力、界限和沟通，以便帮助人们了解他们正在经历的事情，特别是这是他们正在经历的共同经历，而不仅仅是发生在他们身上的事情。
Acute stress or pandemics fracture and create divisions because uncertainty leads people to want to confront the loss of their sense of mastery and certainty. And so it often invites a kind of polarization about the worldview itself. To create a shared vocabulary counters all of that.
由于不确定性导致人们想要面对失去掌控感和确定感的情况，急性压力或流行病会导致分裂和产生分歧。因此，它往往会引发一种关于世界观本身的两极分化。创建一个共享的词汇表。
And that is primarily what I do at this moment when I work with companies or cofounders or managers, is to -- what you were saying before, it's to name it, to frame it, to distill it, and then to be creative in how to respond to it.
当我与公司、联合创始人或管理者合作时，我主要做的就是——你之前说过的，命名、框架、提炼，然后创造性地应对。
HW: I'm curious for your thoughts about what does this mean for the future of work and how we should prepare for it.
华：我很好奇，你对未来工作的规划以及我们应该如何准备的想法。
EP: Look, there's a lot of discussions about the future of work that centers on the remote versus in-person and all of those things. I think for me, what this pandemic has really taught us is that relational intelligence is not just a soft skill for the workplace, that mental health is really at the center at this moment of how we show up at work.
EP：听着，有很多关于未来工作的讨论都集中在远程和面对面工作以及所有这些方面。我认为，对我来说，这场大流行真正教会我们的是，关系型智力不仅仅是工作场所的一项软技能，在我们如何在工作中表现出来的这一刻，心理健康确实处于中心地位。
Work is a place today where we seek belonging, purpose, development, and way beyond just putting food on the table. It is an identity economy. And those fundamental existential needs that people are bringing in, psychological needs that people are bringing to work are part of how we are going to redefine the future of the workplace.
今天，工作是一个我们寻求归属感、目标、发展的地方，不仅仅是把食物摆在桌子上。这是一种身份经济。人们带来的那些基本的生存需求，人们带到工作中的心理需求，是我们重新定义职场未来的一部分。
There are tendencies to talk about it in relation to technology, to AI, and all those things are really important. But because of the technology, because of the AI, because of all the loss of the human touch, the conversation about how we maintain humanity, how we maintain social connection, how we allow people to show up --
人们倾向于谈论它与技术、人工智能的关系，所有这些都非常重要。但是因为科技，因为人工智能，因为所有人类接触的丧失，关于我们如何保持人性，如何保持社会联系，如何允许人们出现的对话--
You know, people always say, I want to bring my whole self to work. And I say we already do. All the skills that we cultivate in our lives and in our childhood, growing up, they show up with us at work and this moment has really made that beyond clear.
你知道，人们总是说，我想全身心投入工作。我说我们已经做到了。我们在生活和童年、成长过程中培养的所有技能，都会在工作中展现出来，这一刻真的让我们明白了这一点。
HW: Esther Perel, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
艾斯特·佩雷尔，很高兴和你交谈。非常感谢你与我们分享你的见解。
EP: It's a pleasure for me to be here. Thank you.
EP:我很高兴来到这里。非常感谢。
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